The Other Newsgroup FAQ

Stuff That Doesn't Help You Play Better, But We Like It

The FAQ is here! Yes, the genuine, official, tablets of stone rulings from the newsgroup and elsewhere are on the Cactus web site. These supersede the fine work of Redemption Wisconsin, but you should still give the cheeseheads* a look. (If you want to look either site over, go to the WSWDATW? page.) But there's a lot of other material that no one ever bothers to keep. Some of it is admittedly pretty mundane, but there are other items that merit some sort of archival storage (at least in our opinion). So we present to the Redemption community our "Other Newsgroup FAQ" archive. (Openly admitted  RNJ members are designated in red type.) This FAQ is selective; we don't necessarily include every post in a thread, but those we feel contributed significantly (or insignificantly, depending on your point of view) to the topic at hand.

(And yeah, I apologize for being so far behind in updating this, but hey, if you want to volunteer to help...)

*The term "cheesehead" is meant in an entirely respectful and affectionate way, but members of RW are welcome to utilize any of the various insults flung at New Jerseyans in response. We're tough, we're used to it, we can take it.

Redemption SCUBA-October 11, 2002

This all started during the lamination discussions of 2001. (See below.) Anyway, after a year of toying with the idea, this happened...

He Started It-Kory Lentine

I just got back from the first documented totally underwater game of Redemption.  I played with Jason O. at my wife's parents' pool.  Since standard scuba gear includes 2 regulators (your primary, plus a spare to share with your buddy in case he ever runs out of air while you're underwater), I had all we needed for both of us to descend beneath the surface of the water and play a complete game before coming back up.

There is one particularly nasty thing about Redemption cards that I never realized before trying to do this: REDEMPTION CARDS FLOAT!!!! Yes, that's right--the little buggers float.  In scuba lingo, we would call them "positively buoyant."  In Kory lingo, I'd call them a negatively annoying.  Still, this was for the record, so we improvised.  By putting a large paper clip on EACH card, we got them to stay down, and the game resumed.

I told my brother, as I handed him his deck, that I modified it for a quick game.  I took out the Grim Reapers, any immune characters, some key stopper evil cards, and went heavy with offense, along with a New Jerusalem (lamb) in each deck.  Basically a weak defense, strong offense quick-win game. NOTICE:  I never said that I modified BOTH decks like that!  : )

Imagine his dismay when on the second turn of the game, I didn't have a good offense yet, so I activated Burial Shroud!  I heard some garbled underwater mumbling coming from his direction that sounded distinctly similar to "WHAT'S UP WITH THAT!!" Imagine his further dismay when he blocked with Evil Spawn and discarded the top card off my draw pile and saw that it was Burial (lucky dog!).

Things got real bad when he came at me with his weenie little starter deck hero and I blocked with Prince of This World (immune to lone heroes). Although we could not talk underwater, I again heard some distorted mumblings that sounded suspiciously similar to "THAT'S MESSED UP!!"

We both got off our Son of Gods and New Jerusalems early, but when I played Falling Away on his first successful rescue attempt, he didn't seem to think that was fair.

It all came to a head when, for the final point of the game, I played James (purple 10/10) against his Strong Demon, followed by Authority of Christ PROMO (discard all EC's; can't be interrupted, prevented or negated).

When we finally surfaced for air, he seemed to think that the game wasn't totally fair.  I don't know what his problem was.  I hadn't even drawn my Saul/Paul to use with the Holy Grail I drew on my first turn.  Nor did my Emperor Nero come up in time to use it.  : )

As I was leaving my house to go play the underwater game, one of my sons asked me to tell him if me or Uncle Jason won when I got home.  I told him, "There's no need. I can tell you now:  I won."  (WHAT?--you didn't think I was going to go on record as having LOST the first recorded underwater game of Redemption, did you?!)   : )

(BTW, I have already had someone ask if he could have some of the ultra-rares that I was going to use, after the game.  Unfortunately, the cards began to shred shortly after we started, and were pretty much disintegrated beyond any future use, by the time the game was over.  Sorry.  (Take consolation in the knowledge that they died valiantly for the cause!)

I have put some pictures of the underwater game up at:
scuba_redemption.htm. (EDITOR'S NOTE: The site for the pictures may change in the near future.)

Steve Braun

You should've laminated the decks, Kory :)

Rory Rezelle

I agree, you should have laminated the decks; that would have kept the cards on or near the bottom of the pool, too.

And a Question from Mel:

I was looking at "The cards are falling apart!" when a question occurred to me: if Haman's Plot falls apart, do you have to use the card and special ability at that time, or can you wait until a time of your choosing and just hold the pieces in your hand until you choose to play it?

We wanted to commemorate this occasion in a suitably RNJ way. What better than a new Redemption card? If you want to use this, we suggest printing it out, sticking it on an old Redemption card, and then laminating it. E-mail Phil if you want to know the proper way to laminate a Redemption card.

750 Ways to Annoy [REDEMPTION] People-October 2-3, 2002

This one is so good (and so long), we've given it it's own page. Click here to check it out.

An Expansion Idea We Like-October 2-3, 2002

He Started It: Kory Lentine

With MY personal connections as one-third of the entire full-time Cactus staff, I happen to KNOW that the next set is going to be...

......................drum roll please.........................

...The Plants!

That's right! A whole set based on all our favorite Biblical herbs and shrubberies! I'd say more but, well, I've said too much already.

Steve Braun

Now this is an idea I can wholeheartedly endorse. Plants have been unfairly neglected in past expansions (oh, sure, there's the Crown of Thorns and Jacob's Rods and a few others), so getting more in play should be a priority. Maybe some special rules should apply to plants:

1) Plants can only use plant-based enhancement cards.
2) Plants cannot make battle challenges.
3) When a Plant is discarded, it goes into the discard pile, but after three turns it "regrows" into the draw pile (unless an Uproot card has been played on it).

I'm sure I can come up with more-but then again, Cactus probably has already done the intital work...
In fact, we like this one so much, we'll even provide the first card for the set...


Now This Is An Idea We Can Endorse-July 27, 2002

The Culprit: Tim Mierzejewski

Break out the original cards again; it's time to polish up that old Helmet of Brass, prepare your Stone of Thebez, and get ready to use Lamenting for Jepthah's Daughter on Hannah & Rebekah. That's right... the Awful Deck competion. Each player gets access to one opponent's cards and builds a deck comforming to certain agreed-upon standards (see below) to build the worst deck possible, and then give it to your opponent for him to play you with. Using only the cards owned by your opponent, you must create an awful deck to prove who is the best strategist, regardless of luck of the draw (because believe me, lucky is getting a 6/6 Evil Character). Here are the standards we used for our games:

>All four basic instant cards (Son of God, Angel of the Lord, Christian Martyr, and Burial) must be included.
>The deck must be fifty-six cards, with seven generic Lost Soul cards.
> Up to three artifacts, two fortresses, and two Lost Soul sites may be used in a deck.
> You must add approximately the same amount of good and evil characters and enhancements, and twice as many enhancements as characters.
> No more than two brigades of each evil and good may be used in a deck. Every brigade used must have both characters and enhancements.
> Since you're building your opponent's deck, NO HAMAN'S PLOT.

Based on those guidelines, we had some fun. I gave my opponent White/Red and Black/Crimson, with him giving me Red/Blue and Gold/Crimson. Transfiguration, Peter's Shadow, Joseph's Silver Cup, Ram's Horn, The gods of Egypt, Lamenting for Jepthah's Daughter, Solomon's Temple, and Blue Tassels were just some of the useless cards we used, based on what we gave our opponent. Hushai and Asahel got a good workout, as did Belshazzar and Four Horns. I made the mistake of giving my opponent mediocre characters, as to not allow him to play the first enhancement, but too late I realized that, it didn't matter who played the first enhancement! Stone Throwers was a tough foe, as were the Prophets of Samaria, but luckily my Potter-and-the-Clayed Mighty Warrior was eventually able to beat the former. I did give my opponent Jochebed, which hurt me in the first game as the only Evil Character I drew for a while was Potiphar's Wife, but eventually I knew
I had done the ultimate stupid action: I added Crown of Thorns to his deck. My Potiphar's Wife and Phygellus  didn't have a chance. Oh, well. Maybe I'll do better next time.

  An Abject Apology-October 19, 2001

The Culprit: Joe Joiner

(Webjester's note: Just in case you were wondering how I got into Redemption, the following post from the newsgroup is absolutely true. It really is Joe's fault.)

To All Redemption Players,
I can only bow my head and beg forgiveness.  It all began because of me. All me, only me.  It's all my fault.  Yes, I'm talking about...

Redemption New Jersey.

It was just a casual referral to a good friend.  "Hey, Steve, ever heard of this great game?  Go check out the website.  Buy a few cards...etc."  After he got some cards he joked about making a website.  I encouraged him to do so, never knowing what his twisted mind would come up with.  (I should have known what would happen, being equally warped in nature).

I'm sorry.  So truly repentant. Down on my knees and begging....

Why Rob Won't Sign Cards for Steve Anymore-October 19,2001

Who Started It-Rob Anderson

I've just been to the Redemption New Jersey site and more specifically the Nationals Nuggets section.  Steve that is absolutely, positively that last card I will ever sign for you.  You have completely ruined me.  My wife and kids didn't stop laughing for five solid minutes.  I have no respect in my own house because of you.
This is Rob's wife, Susan. Don't worry, Steve, we didn't respect him before that anyway.  But boy was that funny.
That enough from you woman!  What's that in your hand?  Put that tent spike down.... stay where you are...

Steve Braun:

Not only that, Rob, but now your post will end up on the RNJ FAQ page too. I'll have to figure out how to forge your signature from now on, I guess.

(Webjester's Note: Duh! I've already scanned his signature! I should be able to do something with that. Now where's that check from Cactus...?)

Why Do You Lose?- October 7-8, 2001

He Started It-AB

What's the most common reason of you losing?  (Assuming, of course, that you lose at least occasionally and your deck isn't flaw-proof.  Even though there is no such thing.)

P.S.  This question arose from the post saying someone lost a nationals game in 3 or 4 rounds.  Who was that, by the way?  I may actually be able to beat them!!!  (Nah.)

Steve Braun:



LLALSMOL!!! (Laugh, laugh, and laugh some more out loud!!!)
P.S.  That's my 1st reason. My runner-up is luck of draw.

Jeff Seacrest:

Don't know, I've never lost. (of course I've only played 3 games - and that with my 8 year old son) ;-)


My top reason for losing would be brain damage from playing Redemption for 36 hours out of a 48 hour period.  This can cause you to not be able to see things like a Dragon Raid for instance   ;-)
Still havin' fun.

Bryon Hake:

Likewise an activated Holy of Holies. (example:  Opponent plays Deceit of Sapphira to discard my 12 banded Elders of Jerusalem.  I interrupt with Words of Encouragement and play Transfiguration. Moses joins battle only to die with the other 12 heroes because in my sleep-deprived state I failed to see opponent's Holy of Holies was activated.)

Likewise a Guardian of Your Souls.  (How many of you have actually had to direct Falling Away on yourself?)

Must sleep now... Can't see important cards... Must... sleep... zzz

Still recovering from a GREAT time at nationals. It was really fun to finally meet all of you.  Off to bed for me now. : )

Phil Gaudette:

The thing that causes me to lose most often is playing.  I find that I rarely lose if I merely abstain from play, regardless of category or deck type.

Play abstention simplifies deck building as well.  For instance, I'm very fond of the new Elders cards, mostly because white brigade's color designation matches the card border so nicely. I'm currently experimenting with a 105 card Elders abstention deck.  There's nothing in it but Elders that all band together.  No souls, no dominants, no artifacts, no nuthin'.  It breaks all deck building rules but it doesn't matter because it's my abstention deck.  I'll never play it.

Steve Braun:

You win, Phil. (But I still get the stupidest moment of the tournament for Nationals, so we're even.)

Watch Out, Nationals!-September 30, 2001

The Culprit: Chris

We will be da peeples comin from up nort (dats Minnesota for you non-native speakin' folk).  Me and my ice fitchin' buddy Mike are gonna be takin to da skies inna beeg ol' jet type aeroplane.  Lookin' forward to meetin' everyone live and in person.  Ya shoor, you betcha.

Redemptiononics-September 24, 2001

He Started It- Paul Turner
Well, we have 4 people on our staff now at the camp I work at who play Redemption and we play more now than ever. It got to where we are speaking in our own language, kinda like ebonics, it's Redemptiononics.  We also have had some snap sessions (where it s cut down fest) in fun only. Some of the ones we came up with are:

Your momma got no defense.

Your daddy bands with demons.

Your daddy was discarded.

Your mom so ugly she is immune to men.

Your momma dress so ugly it looks like Ritzpahs Sackloth.

Feel free to add your own in good taste of course (why do I think the NJ guys will take off with this? :) )

Kevin Shride:

I don't know about putdowns, but we have changed the meaning of several words/phrases:

Angel of the Lord, Christian Martyr, Fallen Away are all now verbs in Redemptiononics.  Example:  "You just Christian Martryed my hero so I'm going to Fallen Away you."

The Boat:  Our catchphrase for Authority of Christ.  It came during an especially heated game where a person who plays purple was attacked by Gabriel. As the opponent was looking through her deck to discard any enhancement, knowing full well which one he was going to discard, she disgustedly said, "It's the one with the boat on it."

Mondo:  King of Tyrus.  We have a friend who described tough evil characters as, "ooh nasty" (pronounced as one word u-nas-tee).  Then, when K of T hit the table in defense one game, he exclaimed, "Ouch.  Mondo-ooh nasty."  K of T has been affectionately called Mondo ever since.

Fat Man-September 18, 2001

The Culprit-Kory Lentine
I've been told it couldn't be done.

I've been told that I was a fool for trying.

I've been informed IN SO MANY WORDS that anyone who played with a 100+ card deck simply didn't know "the right way to build decks" and that it shows that you "like all the really good cards in your deck too much to have the sense to not play some of them."

Well............... [suspense-building drum-roll please]

I showed up at the North Central Regional tournament with my 105-card deck (named "Fat Man") and won 6 games in a row (all against 56 to 70-ish card decks), winning the Type 1 2-Player category.

Now, don't get me wrong and label me as overly zealously full of myself.  I realize that probably for any one of those games, the cards could have fallen differently and I could have lost.  There is ALWAYS luck of the draw involved in any game.  BUT, for 6 consecutive wins, it was definitely MORE than just a fluke!

[Following best read while humming "Glory, Glory Hallelujah"]

I now consider the 100-card deck to have been officially tested, tried, and PROVED as a LEGITIMATE deck-building strategy.

NO MORE must you hang your head in shame when asked how many cards are in your deck!

[Humming louder]

NO MORE must you reply in embarassment, "uh..., well..., it's over a hundred, BUT I'M WORKING ON IT!!"

NO MORE will the 100-card decks be demeaned, demoralized and dejected!!!

[Humming now at a frenzied crescendo!]

100-card deck players of the world, UNITE!!  Declare to the world in ONE voice that we will NOT go down without a fight!!  That we will not go quietly into that good night!!  That we... (etc, etc, yada, yada, this, that, and the other thing--you get the point).

'Nuff said.  :)

Phil Gaudette:

Ehhhhhhyup, the 105.  The old man.  The big deck.  The big 105.  The oooold one hundred and five.  You can count 'em, but you'll still get one, ohhhhhhh, fiiiiiive.  Anything less would be...

Some Fun New Redemption Card Ideas: August 30-September 3, 2001

He Started It: Bryon Hake: In response to a somewhat more serious proposal for new cards, Bryon posted this:

Here are some more "fun" ideas that step just beyond the boundaries of the game. (At least so far...)  Perhaps these should be Definitely-Ultra-Mega-Barely-Exist-Rare (abbreviated DUMBER).
Covetousness (Brown enhancement)
Search opponent's cards for one ultra-rare.  Rip it up, throw it on the ground, and stomp on it, yelling, "If I can't have it, neither can you!"
Human Strength Alone (Gray enhancement)
Interrupt and prevent all special abilities except this one. Battle is determined by the arm-wrestle.  Holder chooses which hand. Loser's character(s)in battle are discarded.  
The Thief (8/6 Black evil character)
Steal one card from any opponent's hand.  It now belongs to you. Take it home after the game.

Flaming Foxtails (Gold hero enhancement)
If used by Samson, light one of opponent's cards on fire. Any other cards that are ignited by this flaming card are removed from the game. (And from the room if playing indoors.  Place in bucket of water or bury).

Confidence in the Flesh (Pale Green enhancement)
Discard a draw pile. That player must play with remaining cards in hand for rest of the game.

Eaten by Dogs (Green enhancement)
Feed one human Crimson Evil Character to any dog(s) in the room. If no dogs are in the room, discard character.  If playing out of doors, dog whistles may be used.

Mike Morrow:

Here are some fun new card ideas that go along with Bryon's rampage:

Eye for an Eye (Artifact)
If holder loses the game, holder reserves the right to poke out the winner's eye, use this ability once per opponent.

Satan Gets What He Deserves (Red enhancement)
Take all of all opponent's evil characters and enhancements from opponent's hand, discard pile, and draw pile. Once collected, have a bonfire with them that night, and don't forget the marshmallows.

Chicken Egg (Artifact)
If holder's rescue attempt fails, holder reserves the right to sneak in on opponent's slumber and gently place a chicken egg in opponent's back pocket.

Cutting the Deck (blue enhancement)
When this card is played, find a butcher knife and gently cut opponent's deck in half. Cannot be interrupted, negated, prevented, redirected, refunded, or bribed against.

Whirlwind (White enhancement)
If played on Elijah [new card idea] or Elhanon, wait until opponent is not looking, then take his/her deck and throw it across the room just as a whirlwind would do to it. All cards landing face up are shipped priority
mail to George W. Bush in the White House. (Maybe Redemption would get more advertisement).

Eaten by a Whale (Artifact)
Regardless of argument, whoever loses this game of redemption (holder included) is brought out to the middle of the Sea Of Galilee and tossed overboard. Can only be negated if loser of the game had a Wendy's spicy
chicken sandwich for lunch.

Waste of Time (Keeper [new card type that you keep in your hand the whole game as a reminder])
If you are losing the game, don't forget to take as much time as needed to make all opponents mad to the point of forfeit. (Note to self: it's an unbeatable strategy.)

Noise of a Swine (Keeper [remember to keep these keepers in your hand as a reminder to self])
Everytime opponent looks at his hand, snort like a pig, keep a straight face and stare at opponent. Wait to see their reaction. This is a quick way to have a laugh. It works every time."

The Getting of a Life (Dominant-lamb icon)
Whoever sat here at their computer and read all of these new card ideas reserves the right to have said to them "Get a life!". (Didn't we all?)

Hey, we all have to spend our spare time somehow!!!

The Great Flannelgraph Debate: August 14-17, 2001

He Started It-Doug Gray:
You know guys, I have played Redemption for a long time and this never occurred to me until now. I can't believe it. I even grew up in church! What was I thinking. Well, anyway. Phil's ideas of card protection got me can I keep my cards clean? I mean, you spend $25 bucks on a Saul/Paul you want to keep him in good condition. But what happens? You take him to a tournament, you are playing away and then you realize that you just set down you expensive ultra-rare in a puddle of Mountain Dew mixed with cheese puffs. What can a player do?

That is why I am pushing for the next Redemption set to be Redemption: The Flannel Graph Set. Thats right. No more messy cards, no more cramped playing spaces! Say good-bye to the days of having to lean over the table to read your opponent's cards. Now they will be right in front of you! You will never mess up your cards again! Redemption The Flannel Graph Set also works great when traveling. Want to play Redemption on the bus? No problem! Just find a person wearing flannel* and sit behind them. Presto! Instant playing field!
Having trouble with your pastor or Sunday School teacher condemning you for playing cards? No more! Watch their eyes light up as you pull out the sacred church Flannel Board and slap these beautifully illustrated pictures on them. Listen to the ooohhs and aaahhhhs over those classic Bible stories of Joseph and his brothers, Moses killing the Egyptian, Jael spiking Sisera, and Ehud using his trusty dagger. You'll be the hit at every church pot-luck!

Now I am having a hard time convincing Rob to do this set. Your thoughts count! Post your support TODAY!

*(Not responsible for dismemberment or death related to playing on the back of the town bully.)

Phil Gaudette:
This has potential. My concern, as always, is flame retardancy and Scotch guarding. Nothing attracts me to a CCG more quickly than the game's ability to repel moisture and withstand extremes of temperature. You could have special Kevlar insert cards too!

Steve Braun:
Well, having worked with CEF over the years, my main concern with a flannelgraph set would be the tendency of flannelgraph figures to fall off the board (generally at the most inopportune time, and much to the amusement of the children). This could prove a problem in tournaments:

Player 1: "Oops, my card fell off. [Stops to fix cuff of his pants.] Here, let me put 'King of Tyrus' back up there..."
Player 2: "'King of Tyrus'? You had the old limited 'Pharaoh' up there-and I'm immune to human ECs. I saw that move!"
Player 1: "What move? I was stepping on my pant leg and wanted to fix it, that's all."
Player 2 (sarcastically): "Sure, nothing tucked in there accidentally, of course."
Player 1: "Hey, these flannelgraph things slip all the time..." (etc., etc.)

This could prove to be a serious detriment to Christian love and fellowship. Perhaps a good Christian compromise would be Redemption overhead transparencies (complete with not only Bible verses, but applicable worship choruses)...

Steve, once again, you bring the wisdom and insight only an experienced flannelgraphsman can provide. I stand in awe.
I wrench my jaw.
I sharpen a saw.

Rob Anderson:
Yes, but consider the wonderful enhancement cards we could make. Special Abilities for cards such as Angry Mob can be taken another step. Here are just some of the possbilities:

1) Blast of Wind. "Take a deep breath and blow on cards in your opponent's territory. Any blown off board are removed from game."

2) Wrath of a Two Year Old: "Turn any two year loose on the board for 5 seconds. Any card still on board after 5 seconds remain. Those on floor are discarded."

3) Fruit Punch Flood: "Player is given one dixie cup (1/2 full) of red fruit punch. Player stands 10 feet from board and launches punch at board. Any cards with punch on them are 'under the blood' and protected from harm until end of battle.

4) Oreo Cookie Grenade: "Take the cream from six cookie. Roll into ball. Throw at board. Any cards knocked on floor are given to Steve's daughter."

5) Time Out Penalty: The naughty player must sit in the hall for two turns. (see pant cuff adjustment in previous post).

  The Lamination of Jeremiah (and other cards): August 13-15, 2001

He Started It-Phil Gaudette:
I know, it's crazy, loopy, loony, wacky even, but...has anyone ever tried to laminate an entire deck of cards?  I'm talking about a heat-rolling, ID card, commercial laminator.  The cards would be permanently sealed in plastic, like a driver's license, and water tight. Twice as thick, but almost my skull. Wadda ya think?

Doug Gray:
WHhhhhhhooooooooooo! I will finally be able to play Redemption in the pool without destroying my ultra-rares!!!!!!  I like it!!!!

Yeah, I didn't think of that.  I guess they'd have to be weighted to keep them on the bottom.  Unless, you thought you could lay them on the surface of the water...but who would do that?  The playing surface would move around, set asides would mix with the souls, your snacks would get soggy, dogs and cats living together...MASS HYSTERIA!

Rob, how about a SCUBA division?

Rob Anderson:
Honestly, Kory is playing in a Redemption scuba tournament off the Outer Banks of North Carolina even as I write this.  Bow & Arrow takes on a whole new meaning when loaded in a spear gun and aimed at your opponent's cards?

They laughed at Archimedes!
They laughed at Hindenberg!
They laughed at George Burns!
They laughed at me when I told them I mark my ultra-rares with a grease pencil!

Let me tell you something, oh my brothers and only friends, you have not lived until you've spent quality time with the GBC DocuSeal 40 Hot Rolling Laminator! Yes, it's true.  I am well on my way to having a fully laminated, Type 1 Deck of common, uncommon, rare, and ultra-rare Redemption cards!  MY LAMINATING KNOWS NO BOUNDS!

Toss away your Ultra-Pro protectors!  Free yourselves from the fetters of poly sleeves meant for lowly baseball cards!  I may not win the Nationals, but by Jove, I will have easy clean-up. HA HA HA HAAAAAAA!

Yup, they look pretty dang good.  After I finished laminatin 'em, I threw 'em all out on the lawn and hosed 'em down.  I think I'll try waxin 'em next.

The Gender of Bear: August 9, 2001

The Culprit: Steve Braun:
My wife has ruled that Bear is not genderless in our games, but male. Her reasoning? No female would be caught dead munching on ribs in public-especially when Bear still has the bones sticking out of his mouth. Definitely uncouth male behavior, in her opinion.

And Some Odd Questions We've Seen...

The Culprit: Steve Braun:
If Moses or Elijah are brought into the game via Transfiguration, do they become NT heroes? (8/9/01)